Ashram Talks: Dr. Filippo Ongaro (en)

00:00:07: Welcome, welcome to the very special episode of my Conscious Growth podcast.

00:00:14: Conscious growth or growing evolving consciousness?

00:00:19: Where does this actually take place and what does it require?

00:00:25: there are places and environments communities our people that inspire us in a special way And help us continue to grow by so-to speak growing to the source of our consciousness.

00:00:39: For me, the Shanti Shetra Premgiri Ashram

00:00:43: at the

00:00:44: foot of the Pima Shankara Mountains near Mumbai is such a place!

00:00:50: When my friend Kevalya Keshav visited me few months ago and delivered my Treya Dadashrichi's invitation to this ashram I already sensed that something very special was waiting for me.

00:01:05: I accepted this invitation and have been there twice this year.

00:01:10: Each time, i've met extraordinary people with some of them such as Sonja Ongaro, Filippo Ongarro, Antonit Herring, Andreas Dudas & Kevalya... ...I had intense conversations about the highest form of leadership.. ..and what it means especially in today's world.

00:01:33: I'd like to share this conversation with you here in my special ashram talk, edition of the Conscious Grows podcast.

00:01:41: This is my conversation with Filippo Angaro.

00:01:45: Filippio is a physician and former space medicine specialist with deep understanding on health human performance and personal growth.

00:01:56: together we explore connections between Health & Leadership And how well your purpose and genuine care for others can shape the way we lead.

00:02:10: Welcome, Filippo Angaro!

00:02:12: What a lovely name.

00:02:14: Thank you for being guests on this special edition of my podcast called Aschrand Talk.

00:02:19: Okay that's a nice name.

00:02:20: It is an new podcast.

00:02:22: I love it.

00:02:23: yes, it's an ashram

00:02:23: Podcasts...and what i really loved was having the possibility to talk with you Filippu.

00:02:31: please tell us Who are you?

00:02:34: Where do you come from and what is your purpose in life?

00:02:38: We start with an easy question.

00:02:41: So well, I'm a medical doctor.

00:02:43: I'm Italian.

00:02:44: I live in Switzerland since about ten years.

00:02:47: i worked for several years For the space program so it was physician for astronauts actually at European Space Agency.

00:02:56: One of the main problems that astronauts face on long-term missions is accelerated aging.

00:03:01: so that triggered in me an interest.

00:03:03: and how do you prevent ageing?

00:03:05: So I was the first Italian to get certified in anti-ageant medicine In the US.

00:03:09: I brought anti agent medicine to Italy into Europe literally, I started a clinic several years ago too early.

00:03:16: it Was one of the first clinics in Europe absolutely two early complex to set up with activity And this being too early was the reason why I started not to wait for patients, but go with people.

00:03:31: Patients didn't understand what i was offering.

00:03:33: so... ...I started talking and writing doing public speeches promoting the YouTube channel.. ..and then this community grew and grew.

00:03:41: at a certain point in two thousand seventeen.

00:03:43: we said ok now it's time stop work one-to-one let start one too many works.

00:03:51: maybe

00:03:52: we can jump back little bit.

00:03:54: Why was it so interesting to work with astronauts?

00:03:58: It sounds...privileged.

00:04:02: No, well actually yes!

00:04:04: It's an incredible luck for me getting into the space program.

00:04:09: Let say I started medicine because i was interested in sports.

00:04:15: So I started working out and building up my body when I was a kid When I was fifteen And I got so interested in...

00:04:23: So you love playing sports and getting fit?

00:04:26: Yeah, to really build up my body.

00:04:29: When i say build it's because i started with bodybuilding.

00:04:32: For me how do i find my nutrition or workout routine My mental routine In order for the body become better To grow improve strength.

00:04:44: Who was your idol In

00:04:45: this time.

00:04:46: You know, it was the mid of the eighties.

00:04:49: I was fifteen so it was eighty-five.

00:04:52: So there were Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger.

00:04:56: Those are people that we're looking up to and actually It's quite interesting because iIwas rowing And then one guy gave me a wrong boat.

00:05:10: So it was the boat for somebody that weighed sixty kilograms, I was already almost eighty and so i sank with the boat in the middle of winter!

00:05:17: Okay...So when I was showering after this experience uh..I thought what do I really like about these boards?

00:05:25: It wasn't rowing but it's physical preparation you

00:05:29: know?!

00:05:31: On other side on street there is a gym where I said why don´t go see you know, how it works.

00:05:37: And the guy in the gym gave me a magazine Muscle and Fitness.

00:05:41: I still remember It was December of nineteen eighty four issue with Arnold on the cover.

00:05:46: Oh really?

00:05:46: And i said okay that's what im gonna do Alright.

00:05:49: Then of course in the years I realized

00:05:51: it's what is role model for Europe.

00:05:53: Yeah, yeah that was really a role model.

00:05:55: kind of strange because my family comes from totally different background intellectual people not sportspeople.

00:06:03: so they didn't appreciate very much this approach.

00:06:09: then you know after few years i did a few competitions and i realize i didn't have genetics to become champion.

00:06:17: actually its also interesting.

00:06:19: one year I really stopped going to school.

00:06:22: I quit school, took certification as a lifeguard for the beach and thought with my money i'm gonna earn during summer then go to California.

00:06:31: Really?

00:06:32: Gold's gem!

00:06:33: And at the end of Summer they didn't even have the money to get to Rimini or whatever certainly not in California.

00:06:42: I said, okay.

00:06:43: I have to get back to school and you know change my approach.

00:06:47: And that's the moment in which i said but I love The topic?

00:06:50: I'm gonna try and study medicine You Know.

00:06:52: so That's how it worked out.

00:06:53: and then from there I went into sports Medicine and yeah, and that's How It Worked

00:06:59: you?

00:07:01: Change the place you go

00:07:03: To

00:07:04: us your

00:07:08: um no i'm not going to be u.s.

00:07:10: But California?

00:07:12: No, no.

00:07:12: I never went to...I went many years after!

00:07:14: I didn't have- I thought i could go with the money that would earn in summer but in reality.. I did not have enough money for going back to California.

00:07:21: That's why I said okay this is a stupid plan let us go back to school and ended my highschool.

00:07:28: And then uh....after that I said well But it really something that I love.

00:07:33: you know human optimization.

00:07:35: so why not try to get into medical schools?

00:07:38: At that time we had a very limited access to medical school in Italy.

00:07:42: So, I think it was five or six hundred to do the exam for one hundred places but i got in easily.

00:07:50: and so thats how started.

00:07:52: then you know studied medicine.

00:07:54: where

00:07:55: did he study?

00:07:56: In Ferrara which is little north of Bologna And then in Ferrara, that was one of the biggest sports medicine schools.

00:08:09: It's a very important professor who has been dealing with all Olympic champions for many years.

00:08:14: so I got into his school and from there I asked him to do university exchange at the Deutsche Sportung Schule in Köln... ...and we were supposed to work as breath hold divers.

00:08:28: The professor said, you know there's a girl that is also a diver.

00:08:33: I would prefer to give that project her.

00:08:37: but are you interested in working with astronauts?

00:08:39: because i'm consultant into the space agency and I say okay thats fantastic!

00:08:42: And then... You know..I worked on this project was supposed stay for five months and then the Space Agency said we'll like keep it.

00:08:50: so that how it went.

00:08:54: It wasn't planned.

00:08:55: as many things life isn't really planed

00:08:59: But it kept you in the right place, right?

00:09:02: I don't know absolutely but You now.

00:09:05: It's not something that you say many people Think or maybe you had you know passion for spaceflight when he was.

00:09:13: it's true That whatever seven i did write an email and a mail not any male to NASA asking how to become an astronaut.

00:09:21: Really?

00:09:22: Yes, because my parents bought me a telescope so I started watching the moon and then said hey write this email but at this mail again.

00:09:29: let's now speak about emails... But do you think that you will

00:09:33: get this job by NASA If you hadn't written that letter,

00:09:39: I don't know.

00:09:40: I wasn't hired by NASA was hired by the European Space Agency But because our astronauts are You know training a lot at NASA and Russia in reality as a doctor?

00:09:49: You say you spend a lot of time in NASA And in at the Russian space agency.

00:09:56: Well, I dunno.

00:09:56: maybe you could say fate and destiny.

00:09:58: You know.

00:09:58: your wrote that later.

00:09:59: then you never thought about it again.

00:10:02: And then it comes back into your life suddenly.

00:10:05: I still remember the moment in which, for first time when went to Johnson Space Center in Houston and was in front of this huge Saturn rocket lying on the ground infront of JSC... ...and at that point came my mind about a letter i never thought about again before many years ago.

00:10:23: At those moments i said wow now i remember writing that letter!

00:10:26: Now im getting into the gate of NASA you know?

00:10:29: So that was a nice moment.

00:10:32: Wow,

00:10:33: cool!

00:10:33: Do you believe in inner pictures?

00:10:36: In life?

00:10:38: because I don't think it is the question of age but it wasn´t an inner picture.

00:10:43: It was a vision like hey i want to do it.

00:10:46: when your are kid and write a letter like this it shows You already had clear visions And were really motivated.

00:10:54: Let's say...I have never been somebody that backs off easily.

00:10:59: So if I have something in mind, i'm someone who is really doing it.

00:11:07: but also think of life especially when you get older and understand its not all about your choices or strength power but adaptability flexibility being ready to change the direction.

00:11:23: actually thats what You know even at that age when I realized.

00:11:28: That would not become a professional athlete to so you Know, I backed off and I said okay But what can I do with that?

00:11:33: experience of that is maybe more?

00:11:37: You know fine-tuned to who I am.

00:11:39: So it's the mixture.

00:11:40: I think you need a vision.

00:11:41: I Think you need to have the courage and the strength or two Followed that vision.

00:11:47: but you also need to adapt and be flexible because sometimes That road is not meant for you, so... You have to change.

00:11:56: So

00:11:56: what did they learn in these programs?

00:12:00: It was quite a good school wasn't it?

00:12:02: Yes

00:12:02: absolutely!

00:12:05: A lot of things from an experience like this a leader.

00:12:22: so you learn to push forward for your ideas, and work with people that have an enormous responsibility.

00:12:31: People who worked their whole life flying in space.

00:12:34: many of them come from elite military careers.

00:12:38: to deal and interact with those people.

00:12:43: Even as a doctor, you need know what your talking about today.

00:12:46: You don't have second third or fourth chance if you disappoint.

00:12:49: you disappoint immediately And then learn from the scientists that are involved in space program.

00:13:00: It's an amazing opportunity.

00:13:02: I was very young So I could exploit that very much.

00:13:07: I was volunteering for any sort of experience, you know?

00:13:10: so i did really a lot things in those years and um...I think everything else they came after in my life.

00:13:17: it somehow linked to uh..that experience.

00:13:22: even having met my wife there she was working as a psychologist You Know!

00:13:25: Also if we wouldn't have had the experience Everything would've been different

00:13:33: But there was a lot of pressure in this time?

00:13:37: Well, there is pressure to know what you're talking about.

00:13:41: Not be vague and not have clear ideas on how you plan things.

00:13:52: You learn diplomacy because the space program is huge international compromise if you want!

00:14:00: So you need to learn how talk, present and deal with this universe of astronauts engineers scientists governments ministries private sector.

00:14:19: it's a complicated machine.

00:14:21: And so for me In many terms, let's say not only as a medical doctor but really as human being.

00:14:30: It has been an incredible school for me absolutely.

00:14:33: So what did you learn about leadership through this school?

00:14:38: And

00:14:39: What is so important from the school and maybe something that was changing But inside it was very valuable and for your work, even if they might have changed since then?

00:15:03: Yeah I think...I would say that there's a difference.

00:15:10: One of the things that i learned or observed is the difference between leadership but it somehow appointed which may be more concerning staff than astronauts And leadership comes from example and the real experience.

00:15:30: And this is not, I'm not judging because all of those leaders might be useful... ...I am NOT saying that one's better than another but there IS a difference!

00:15:39: The difference is an astronaut literally sits on a bomb that flies into space.

00:15:47: so many of them come from elite military careers which also something that you don't joke about, y'know?

00:16:01: So what I learned is the value of being... Of leading by example and not by titles or by appointments.

00:16:11: And also what I learnt which was something everybody knows.

00:16:16: but maybe we sometimes forget That i dont define leaders as people doing things right But as a person who does the right thing.

00:16:26: A slightly different approach, you know.

00:16:28: one is a manager which it's good.

00:16:29: It's useful but not necessarily leader and The other one Is someone that is able also to make choices?

00:16:35: That are difficult or they're not popular To say things that aren't necessary to push forward.

00:16:42: You Know the mission of project.

00:16:43: I

00:16:46: Also learned something Different Something additional that is interesting because i heard that from now the crew members that went the flight around the moon And I agree a hundred percent there's a big difference between the team and a crew.

00:17:00: The team when it's you know evening everybody goes back home.The crew has no home,the Home is where they are together?And There's a Big Difference in the way You have to manage things you Know you don't Have.

00:17:13: oh yeah i'll have my Team but you know In the Evening go Back home and relax.

00:17:19: No, that you don't have the chance.

00:17:22: You're stuck in space closed and a space station with those people And so... And space doesn't compromise.

00:17:29: Space is most hostile environment there for human beings.

00:17:33: So this also something very valuable to having witnessed way they go through problems difficulties differences because they are different.

00:17:47: They can be different even if they come from the same agency, you know?

00:17:50: Different people in

00:17:51: U.S.,

00:17:51: or Europe.

00:17:52: but imagine how different they are.

00:17:53: If then they have Russian and Japanese and European and American But still...they make it work.

00:18:00: So yeah

00:18:03: Wow Okay It's totally a space islander.

00:18:06: Yeah I think Space has has a lot of potential to teach, we could say transfer knowledge which is not only technology.

00:18:24: Technology transferred from space as well established.

00:18:27: everybody knows about satellites or whatever other technologies but there's more than that and also knowledge, psychology, team management, there are a lot of aspects that still not so well known about space.

00:18:45: and what can you know?

00:18:47: our space program teach us actually.

00:18:50: So it was great school for you?

00:18:54: Thanks for the insights but now we will jump little bit forward.

00:18:59: What happened in your life after that?

00:19:01: Well,

00:19:02: it happened and when I was at the US And i started dealing with this accelerated aging process in astronauts you know muscle loss bone loss cardiovascular deconditioning metabolic changes.

00:19:13: Um...I started to uh understand because a lot of researchers were already saying that at that time That It Was Not Different from the process of aging on Earth.

00:19:27: It was only accelerated, but biological principles were the same.

00:19:31: and in parallel to that outside of the agency I started seeing the anti-aging movement coming up.

00:19:37: you know when i wasn't.

00:19:38: u.s..i heard people who went to conferences said what is it about?

00:19:41: You never hear about anti-age medicine

00:19:46: In which year?

00:19:48: That was probably...I don´t know, two thousand five something like this?

00:19:55: So I started to get interested in this and suddenly, you know... ...I realized something that is very clear since a long time but never thought about it coming from performance medicine.

00:20:08: That aging is the biggest problem of our society today!

00:20:11: And so.... I was wondering if we were able decelerate ageing crew members that stay in space?

00:20:21: Why shouldn't we be able to do that with people on earth?

00:20:24: Which is an easier environment, you know.

00:20:26: So in space.

00:20:27: You now have microgravity That is inducing muscle loss.

00:20:29: so on Earth's you have a sedentary lifestyle But it still is not as severe as microgravities.

00:20:35: So yeah, I got involved and this anti-aging Education i got board certified in anti agent and functional medicine was literally the first Italian too To be involved in all these programs.

00:20:47: In The meantime, you Know Sonya Got more and more involved in biofeedback, stress management also stuff that is very relevant for people on earth.

00:21:02: She's a psychologist but an organizational psychologist so she was coming from the coaching background.

00:21:10: I think he can come here And it's his room.

00:21:20: So she had already worked with Opel, with Driga Medical.

00:21:24: With B&W and so she started to think but you know more the more I work with the astronauts The more realized that what we are doing is actually so important for everyone in companies You know?

00:21:37: And then In two thousand seven i have a sort of epiphany and crazy one because i said okay you Know What let's just resign and open up our own medical center which was kind of a strange decision because you live very comfortably in the space agency, nice salaries good travels and fascinating work.

00:21:59: And I had contact with Benetton family in Italy.

00:22:05: so we set up our first project... ...with their support from there.

00:22:11: then we kept cleaning for about ten years.

00:22:13: that's what i told at the beginning.

00:22:15: we started to see this potential, scale up our message and move away from the one-to-one.

00:22:24: You have around six hundred K followers on YouTube by now... Is that right?

00:22:31: Yeah I think more than six thousand.

00:22:36: We have six hundred five thousand on YouTube.

00:22:40: four hundred sixty thousand Facebook Instagram LinkedIn.

00:22:45: We have a huge newsletter with more than two hundred thousand subscribers, which we clean up.

00:22:49: by the way I was it would be bigger.

00:22:52: It took many years.

00:22:54: So this doesn't happen You know in a short time?

00:22:57: It takes time and effort A lot of content.

00:23:02: you now i think i have ninety million visualization on my channel But i also had almost a thousand videos.

00:23:08: no what i mean.

00:23:09: so that means well in a thousand video

00:23:11: Wow!

00:23:15: Wow, and it's not only a fancy stuff.

00:23:18: It has substance to your videos or?

00:23:20: Yeah

00:23:21: we hope so!

00:23:21: I was never interested in you know... ...I would never define myself as an influencer.

00:23:26: I couldn't care less about that stuff You know for me is just the tool to get people And So i have always tried.

00:23:32: yes of course We also.

00:23:34: you know everything About clickbaiting Or thumbnails Ofcourse but I was never so interested in...

00:23:43: Performance marketing.

00:23:44: Exactly,

00:23:45: and let's say indiviating from what I believe just to get a higher performance or how high of followership.

00:23:53: So i think we maintain the certain standard.

00:23:59: In parallel also wrote several books And that is something which gives you access to media.

00:24:10: You wrote about thirteen books.

00:24:12: Yeah,

00:24:13: it's easy to ruin your reputation on digital platforms if you push too hard with stuff that is not validated or marketing tricks.

00:24:25: so the three secrets will solve all of your problems without any effort and all those crap.

00:24:31: I always try keep away from them And i'm going more and more away.

00:24:36: by the way I'm too old for that, you know?

00:24:40: Okay.

00:24:41: How old are you?

00:24:42: I am fifty-six.

00:24:43: Fifty six!

00:24:44: Yeah okay best age huh?

00:24:46: I

00:24:47: think...I would be one of those people who will always say now is the base stage because i've experienced it already and y'know..i wouldn't go back.

00:24:56: Im happy with who im today than when was twenty thirty or forty.

00:25:04: What is your purpose in life?

00:25:05: When you look back, do you achieve a lot of great things.

00:25:10: I

00:25:12: might surprise but the first thing... The highest thing!

00:25:17: It can seem strange to me that it's fun.

00:25:21: Really?

00:25:21: Yes so the first one was enjoying the experience and discovery curiosity growth getting to know people.

00:25:30: One reason why i moved from medicine to coaching is my instinct with people.

00:25:37: I love to get to know people at a deeper level and i think that every encounter can leave

00:25:46: both

00:25:47: in a growth state, you know?

00:25:50: And so for me the first purpose of really enjoying by learning ,by growing .

00:25:56: By feeling that I am improving which comes again from my background on sports.

00:26:03: And then I would say that what happened, almost by chance is that people told me they have a strong impact on others.

00:26:13: So the second purpose became... What can i do with this?

00:26:19: Impact capacity and you know..I want to open peoples eyes so make them aware of life as something more precious than we normally think.

00:26:33: And I am very sad when i see so many people, you know not daring.

00:26:46: Not exploiting this opportunity that we have with this life by staying I don't know.

00:26:55: In a complaining mode, or in the victim mode... ...or an angry mode but never getting out of that model which i know by the way because.. ..I was relatively angry kid so it's more like rebel if you want and uh....so yeah these two things would put them into disorder however.

00:27:17: So for me the priority is And again, it's not being egoistic but it has been realistic.

00:27:23: My first priority is satisfying my own needs and my own need are growth okay?

00:27:28: My second priority is how can I help contribute by going down this path?

00:27:33: Okay

00:27:34: Yeah that´s why i live here.

00:27:38: What the purpose when we talk about purpose means?

00:27:43: what your contribution in life for society?

00:27:48: Well, for me it has been in the last ten years providing that knowledge that empowers people to change their lives.

00:27:55: Alright so be at the knowledge of how you're supposed to eat or How are you supposed to work out?

00:28:01: Or the knowledge on how your supposed to manage your stress and find a scope In life.

00:28:07: what I did these years is really try to metabolize as much research And the personal experience and translate that into practical Suggestions, okay?

00:28:22: Okay Of course knowing very well.

00:28:25: That you cannot give a hundred percent to personalized suggestions by speaking one too many.

00:28:30: I'm Very Well aware of that.

00:28:31: this is The reason why we trained Professionals.

00:28:34: You know We train the doctors nutrition as personal trainers psychologists coaches Because when we interact with somebody then needs A one-to-one support.

00:28:43: do we Know who that person can work with, okay?

00:28:47: But still I do believe the universal culture of how to take care yourself is something that should be common knowledge.

00:28:59: Everybody should know that.

00:29:01: then you have a second step which says Okay i want a personalized approach for solving this specific issue.

00:29:13: That's what we tried to do in these years.

00:29:17: And I think, had a very good response from people because... ...I've always been honest that this is not magic solution and knowledge you have to apply.

00:29:31: If you won't apply it nothing will happen.

00:29:34: so its'not beacause.. ..you see my video or read MY book where your gonna solve the issues It if in that book you find some stuff That you can start applying.

00:29:45: so Yeah, so that's My philosophy a little bit.

00:29:50: All right what do you see when your observe people and Western society?

00:29:56: Can you see something like A trend in western life?

00:30:04: well I think of the trend today is It's pretty clear reality And it's a bifurcation.

00:30:10: So you see there there are more people than a few years ago understanding the logic of, you know how do I take better care myself?

00:30:20: How do i age stronger and healthier.

00:30:25: How to protect my self in general way if u want.

00:30:31: this is true also in financial world.

00:30:33: You know..how do i protect my assets ?

00:30:35: How do have home?

00:30:36: that protects me health ,that protects family.

00:30:40: So, and I think this is positive.

00:30:43: On the other side though there are still a huge amount of people that in different spiral so they're going In an opposite direction And getting even more addicted to unhealthy food To unhealthy behaviors, drugs You know get lost in scrolling Social media or whatever.

00:31:04: So that's why I think it is the time in which we should all do something additional to make these people, you know maybe open for one second their eyes and realize oh okay there a different way i can go.

00:31:17: And then I believe everybody finds best ways.

00:31:21: so my task is mainly opening your eyes giving first understanding of some things... There are

00:31:29: glimps?

00:31:29: Exactly!

00:31:30: Then.. You can find experts that can support you one-to-one if need or just read additional books, the main task is really this eye opening part which by the way not simple.

00:31:49: We talk

00:31:50: about habits absolutely

00:31:52: and maybe we give a little glimpse.

00:31:57: what are these three insights to change your habits?

00:32:04: well, you know.

00:32:05: five maybe.

00:32:06: yeah.

00:32:06: first

00:32:06: of all we have to say You know neurosciences and psychology Have understood today much.

00:32:13: Much more.

00:32:14: what habits are okay?

00:32:16: So habits our Anatomical adaptations of the brain.

00:32:20: so you can trace habits in the brain of someone.

00:32:23: Okay That increase the efficiency of behaviors So reducing energetic consumption And giving you gratification.

00:32:35: So said in a simple way it's shortcut to get with the smallest energetic investments, the highest amount of gratification.

00:32:44: now The brain has been built like this because of evolutionary reasons.

00:32:48: This is the nilogical thing?

00:32:50: Yes

00:32:51: all right okay.

00:32:53: and Of course there is what you know Scientists have called evolutionary discordance, so what does it mean?

00:33:00: It means that if you are built in a way... ...that doesn't reflect any more the environment you live with.

00:33:06: You're going to have some problems.

00:33:08: now.

00:33:08: of course In a natural environment this tendency That we have To seek pleasure Is positive because its what is pushing you go beyond to look for food.

00:33:22: But in a new civilized environment, the same aspect becomes a problem because now you just buy food.

00:33:30: You don't have to walk to get food and find it everywhere.

00:33:36: So this understanding of habits made also very clear that The key element is gratification and cannot be anything different.

00:33:48: so all the rhetoric actually rhetoric, I think.

00:33:54: Around willpower discipline it's pretty much crap yeah.

00:34:01: so in reality if you... If i take me as an example very disciplined working out every day..I would never say that that's discipline!

00:34:09: I just do because I like it okay?

00:34:10: I like working out and I'd like to see myself in the mirror.

00:34:13: a good shape.

00:34:13: end of this story.

00:34:14: So its gratification.

00:34:17: So I think that this understanding is changing a lot of things.

00:34:20: And so we need to include an element or gratification, even when we suggest the habit change?

00:34:27: The main important thing is to study with that person.

00:34:30: how can i substitute a gratification That is immediate but in the long term it's damaging you With one that is still immediate But on the long-term its not harming You and This requires a lot Of coaching for the subject the person.

00:34:48: It has a lot to do with identity, if you think that you can attach an habit which cannot be combined by the identity of this person.

00:34:56: it's never going to work and so I would say that is becoming very interesting part also in big field now of longevity.

00:35:06: everybody talking about longevity behavioral changes become more important because everyone realizes its key really make things happen.

00:35:16: So to make people work out, eat healthier reduce stress or work less whatever you need behavioral change.

00:35:25: And then there are certain techniques that can be used in order to introduce a new habit with the minimum dose not maximum dose but for example with exercise.

00:35:36: The tendency has always been Well, you know... I don't know.

00:35:41: Fifty-five?

00:35:41: Fifty six?

00:35:42: This is your weight and that's your height this level of fitness.

00:35:45: You need one and a half hours per day.

00:35:48: And we never ask ourselves but if this person since thirty years has not even done five minutes per day how the hell he gonna do one an hour from tomorrow or Monday always famous Monday?

00:36:01: and so now we adopt a totally different approach, which is to ask the person what's the minimum amount of exercise you could introduce from today without disrupting anything in your life?

00:36:11: And if that person says five minutes then start with five minutes.

00:36:14: We make those five-minute automatic and it's not a miracle but you see the person move into ten, fifteen, twenty or twenty-five without having any effort because their brain has accepted those ten minutes.

00:36:32: And then the gratification comes from being constant and seeing results.

00:36:38: So, these are things that now I think become more important because it's really helpful for people to support change.

00:36:48: What does this topic mean?

00:36:49: For modern leadership?

00:36:51: Because when we look in the economy We see a lot of transformation programs starting

00:37:00: already or

00:37:02: they changing?

00:37:04: What is your advice for leaders regarding these processes, especially since the often involved cultural change programs.

00:37:17: I have just finished a book which i called biology of leadership and The idea of the book came from something I realized many years ago.

00:37:32: if you speak with People that use their body to at highest level an elite athlete, you know Special forces soldier whatever You will never find one of these guys.

00:37:45: That is not aware how important the brain and the mind are.

00:37:50: They have it super clear.

00:37:53: Okay when you move into the normal work organizational world where people use their brain and not the bodies they think that body doesn't have anything to do with their performance.

00:38:05: And this is completely wrong, you know?

00:38:09: So for me one big change in understanding everything is embodied.

00:38:14: your brain is embodied.

00:38:16: so it's...you are dreaming if you think that your metabolism does influence decision capacity.

00:38:24: You're dreaming.

00:38:26: You are dreaming if you think that your sleep routine doesn't have an impact on how do deal with the team.

00:38:32: So this is a new culture I would love to promote, which does not mean every leader in our organization has become super-assid.

00:38:39: no!

00:38:39: Not at all.

00:38:40: but we need minimum of awareness That your brain... ...which is the essence of leadership integrated in your body, and it is a very sensitive organ by the way.

00:38:53: And you're

00:38:53: bodies are

00:38:54: state or?

00:38:55: Absolutely!

00:38:56: So we cannot keep subdividing these two entities from the carton.

00:39:02: You know We kept on saying that brain's one thing The mind of the body everything separated.

00:39:06: no Everything is integrator.

00:39:08: today science supports this idea Very well... ...and we need to suggest practical approaches.

00:39:17: Okay, we have plenty of them to help leaders.

00:39:20: First of all manage in a better way themselves because then they will manage better their people the organization.

00:39:29: you know.

00:39:29: They will Be followed not because of fear anger or authority?

00:39:34: They would be followed because they work like magnets.

00:39:38: You know.

00:39:38: they attract Followership which is the essence of charismatic leadership by the way and so I think this is something very, very important.

00:39:51: This justifies that organizations work more and more on staff's wellness with a gym... ...with programs for stress management or meditation room.

00:40:07: but the leader has to be first one lead by example again.

00:40:13: But it takes years.

00:40:17: Everything takes years.

00:40:18: Yeah, so everything important takes a long time.

00:40:21: But we have to start from somewhere and honestly I'm seeing already a lot of you know companies Understanding this principle.

00:40:29: it's a little more difficult To make it personal And i am somebody that tends to make everything personal.

00:40:36: for me there is nothing

00:40:38: Unpersonal.

00:40:38: no

00:40:39: okay in principle.

00:40:41: So if you are talking about something?

00:40:43: You don't represent what you're talking about for me, I wouldn't say you are lying but it's just blah-blah.

00:40:51: And so the most difficult part is reeducating leaders and understanding the value of taking care of themselves on the other side.

00:40:59: Leaders always think they are a Formula One car.

00:41:03: well then treat them like a Formula one car not like a damn truck.

00:41:07: You know what i mean?

00:41:08: So if you are a formula one car behave like a formula or like a Formula One pilot.

00:41:18: Is there difference between change and transformation?

00:41:22: Well, that's an interesting question!

00:41:26: Yes I assume there is the difference... ...I would assume semantically that transformation as a deeper process you know.. That it's the process which shakes maybe the foundations of things.

00:41:37: well i see changes something little more progressive.

00:41:41: So you can change also by building up on a structure that is old and already exists.

00:41:48: Transformation, for me sounds more like changing skin.

00:41:53: so really going deeper... I am not able to say if we always need transformation maybe or not.

00:42:01: Maybe there are many situations in which change progress.

00:42:05: growth is sufficient to face the challenges our world has.

00:42:13: Maybe the part that needs more transformation is in a world of people.

00:42:20: Which, by the way... I don't know if you will declare it but you are calling this interesting chat ashram talks and i always want to remind myself in the first place, that Western culture had all this and we just lost it.

00:42:38: If you will go back to ancient Greek philosophy or Latin philosophy... It was there!

00:42:42: You know?

00:42:42: The fundamental questions how to manage a desire have managed pleasure has managed resilience tough moments..it's always been there.

00:42:53: so I think maybe going back into roots and transform our inner strength a little different from what we can see normally.

00:43:05: What means consciousness for you?

00:43:08: and is consciousness the new skill in Beyond Leaders?

00:43:14: Well, that's another interesting question because if you would ask some spiritual teacher probably you will get a more straightforward answer of what consciousness is.

00:43:28: If you ask the medical doctor, it's tough to reply because there are no scientific consensus on what consciousness exactly is which.

00:43:35: let us say that this is a big lack in science.

00:43:44: so we conventionally say that mind as product for organ brain but its little bit conventional strong elements to explain how that works and consciousness is probably something even bigger.

00:43:58: And if you think about the knowledge we have, concerning... ...the neurological structure around our heart or gastrointestinal system most likely it's this form of awareness from an unbelievable network of neurons that we have, that underuse because only a small portion is used.

00:44:24: as we also know the DNA is actually codifying for proteins.

00:44:28: So there are still interesting open questions to answer.

00:44:37: So, but if I have to answer from what i feel consciousness is... ...I think at the end it's not so far away.

00:44:45: form love.

00:44:48: For yourself you know for life.. ..I think when are able see in other person exactly same doubts and struggles problems because we all face more or less the same things Then you start seeing something, which I don't know what it is but might be a form of consciousness that makes us all one thing.

00:45:17: Which also an interesting perspective because yes we are single subjects.

00:45:24: who can say they were not simply cells or large organisms and humanity?

00:45:32: I don't have an answer that can satisfy, just my opinion.

00:45:41: Who has an answer who really satisfies the complexity of this question?

00:45:48: So interesting!

00:45:49: Philippo...

00:45:51: ...I

00:45:52: can talk to you hours and hours!

00:45:58: It's so special because you are an expert in many disciplines and have so much experience in life.

00:46:05: To briefly summarize, what are the five-six topics or habits of skills for leaders tomorrow?

00:46:15: I

00:46:18: would say it depends on which background you have.

00:46:26: You could call it skills, competencies... I like more to think they are results of training.

00:46:34: Again, i go back to my origins and almost everything is trainable And we don't give enough importance for this idea.

00:46:45: We always think that guy who has a special talent you know it's made from some special material.

00:46:53: For me its impossible.

00:46:55: In reality, also here science has clearly indicated that this is not true.

00:47:01: Scientists have studied elite athletes and found out at the end yes there are some minor genetic component which is more important for definition of what type of sport you're going to be successful in but then it's a matter how much you've trained or well-trained.

00:47:16: so for me its more trainable traits than you can develop and there are a number.

00:47:23: One is self-care, so the first one that I would say it's leader today cannot afford to send message which my body doesn't count as shit sorry if i'm so direct.

00:47:36: A leader because leaders of they're visible by way rarely.

00:47:39: a leader in isolated you know walls his company uh... They have responsibility for show people.

00:47:48: even especially if you have a role of responsibility, You still need to find the time.

00:47:55: take care yourself and your family.

00:47:58: Take care what you eat or how you sleep.

00:48:01: do minimum level exercise and transmit this thing because otherwise our society is going fall apart.

00:48:08: so there simply not money.

00:48:11: support an even bigger amount people getting old in unhealthy way.

00:48:16: So everyone has this responsibility.

00:48:19: We have it as parents and a leader has is the leader of an organization, okay?

00:48:24: The second point I think is to develop with his magnetic force that comes from we could say love at the end.

00:48:33: you know Love for your mission for your values for what you have created love for your team members.

00:48:40: I Think many leaders thing that they don't have an impact.

00:48:47: I'm not saying that their guilty, i-i dont want to point fingers against anyone but im just sayin' That They Don´t Have A Responsibility In The Way Their Team Is Reacting Okay?

00:48:57: They Think They Are Reacting Badly Because They Are Lazy Because They Didn´t Study Enough because they don´t care because blah blah blah in reality its because the leader is not leading enough because most of people are genuinely willing To Do Their Best if they have in front a good leader.

00:49:17: So I think this is an extremely important thing to develop this charismatic leadership capacity.

00:49:25: and the science has studied also what charisma is, again it's not something that one has but its presence together with the desire of doing something good for you.

00:49:36: That's what characterizes a charismatic person so everybody can become charismatic.

00:49:44: And number three, I think understanding a little more the general picture you are living in.

00:49:55: It's not only about your company and results or turnover, EBITDA... Whatever!

00:50:02: The values you're transmitting to the world through work that is being done by team manager, products you bring into market etc.. These are three things that I believe, let's say at the philosophical level if you want.

00:50:18: But they're all things can be transformed into practical approaches.

00:50:28: and then one thing is super important in any organization to manage transitions in a proper way Because I have seen so many times that you know, You are having a bad phone call and then you bring in the next meeting The bad emotions of that phone.

00:50:47: Yes And this goes on an all-in-one It's like contagious disease it never stops.

00:50:53: and i think That So self awareness of realizing I am In A Bad State Before Making The Next Step is super important at every level especially For the leader.

00:51:05: to clear

00:51:06: yourself.

00:51:06: Yes,

00:51:07: to clear your self up a ritual with.

00:51:09: you know breathing techniques With a relaxation technique whatever we've writing in your in your journal But you have a responsibility not that too.

00:51:18: bring this energy.

00:51:20: Yeah is bad energy.

00:51:21: yeah.

00:51:21: next

00:51:22: and super

00:51:23: simple at the end

00:51:23: You know it's something.

00:51:26: It's not rocket science really something simple.

00:51:28: but again The number one factor in every field I have seen is remembering.

00:51:35: you know, remembering.

00:51:36: And this has again something to do with awareness and consciousness.

00:51:39: so how much do I receive feedback of how i am?

00:51:44: Of how im behaving or speaking on what Im transmitting?

00:51:50: We forget!

00:51:53: So rationally we know these things but practically we forget.

00:51:57: And so I'm a big believer in the power of remembering, very simply.

00:52:02: You know if you remember who you are and what you stand for everything else comes as a consequence.

00:52:08: If you forget then you have to start from scratch every morning.

00:52:12: Oh wow!

00:52:14: That was the famous last sentence.

00:52:29: I want to thank you Philippo from all my heart.

00:52:46: for the deep human inspiration I experienced during our conversation.

00:52:51: Philippus' understanding of leadership, which integrates body and mind has given me many new insights!

00:52:59: At

00:52:59: this same time i would also like to recommend other episodes from my Ashram Talks released as a special edition of The Conscious Grows Podcast.

00:53:11: Feel free to subscribe to my podcast shared with your network.

00:53:16: Leave a comment.

00:53:18: Thank you so much for listening and stay tuned for the next episode, yours Peter Martin!